“I’d never thought I’d see this bullsh*t again
To come of age in the 80’s was bad enough
We were marginalized and demonized
I watched a lot of my generation die”
From “Siberian Butterfly” by Bob Mould
On this week’s episode of The Hardcore Humanism Podcast, we had the pleasure of talking with musician and activist Bob Mould. Many people know Mould from his seminal work with Hüsker Dü, a band that came out of the hardcore punk scene and was incredibly influential on music in general, but particularly what later became “alternative rock.” Rolling Stone has called Hüsker Dü’s album Zen Arcade one of the greatest punk rock albums of all time. Legend has it that Kim Deal joined alternative rock gods Pixies by responding to an ad in a Boston newspaper that said, “band seeks bassist into Hüsker Dü and Peter Paul and Mary.” And Dave Grohl perhaps put it best when he said, “No Hüsker Dü, no Foo Fighters.” Mould has also gone on to have a long solo career following Hüsker Dü, recently releasing a new album Blue Hearts (2020) as well as a 24 CD box set Distortion: 1989-2019 that documents his 30-year post-Hüsker Dü career, including his solo albums and work with the band Sugar.
Mould’s enduring and influential career is not only impressive artistically, but it also puts him in a unique position to share a historical perspective. During our conversation, Mould talks about the lessons we can learn from his experience of the United States during the 1980’s as it applies to the current sociopolitical climate. Specifically, during the 1980’s the country faced HIV/AIDS, political tension centered around the Reagan administration and suppression of underground art – including those in the hardcore punk community – from being heard in mainstream culture. These parallel experiences put him in a unique position to comment on current events as we struggle with Covid-19, tensions regarding the Trump administration and difficulties of performance artists being able to ply their trade due to lockdown restrictions. Overall, what Mould discusses in our conversation is both the emotional experience of and coping with marginalization – or the treatment of a person, concept or group as though they were inconsequential.
Marginalization can manifest in several ways. For example, marginalization can express itself as stigma – where one feels rejected or disgraced. While we now have more information on HIV/AIDS– what it is, how it is transmitted, and how to manage it – Mould explained how frightening and confusing the epidemic was when it began to spread – especially for him as a gay man. “And you know, there was a lot of people very scared about HIV,” Mould told me. “Can you get it from sneezing? Can you get it from a water fountain?” The Center for Disease Control suggests that lack of understanding of how HIV/AIDS is transmitted and who is vulnerable perpetuates stigma. And this stigma has emotional consequences. One study of 367 men recently diagnosed with HIV were more likely to experience depression if they reported internalized stigma.
Further, marginalization can go beyond stigma into more direct policy discrimination. During the 1980’s, the country faced severe political strife in the face of a right-wing government. “I think back to 1980 … remembering seeing kids with briefcases and suits and ties, calling themselves the Young Republicans and also recognizing … the advent, no pun intended, of the Moral Majority,” Mould recalled. “There were a lot of forces at play in the country … I look back and I think about the Evangelicals and how much support they put behind this television actor named Ronald Reagan.” Marginalization can surely be felt if one does not identify with the party in power. But if stigma turns into direct discrimination, the effects can be even more severe. For example, until the 2015 Supreme Court decision that legalized gay marriage, many gay individuals did not have marriage equality. Prior research found that gay individuals living in states that did not have legalized gay marriage demonstrated higher levels of mood, anxiety and substance use disorders.
Finally, marginalization can express itself as interference in the ability to pursue one’s interests and even career. Hardcore punk, like Hip Hop and heavy metal, were underground cultures in the 1980s with limited access to more mainstream outlets, venues, magazines and record contracts. “This entire world was constructed … just from imagination, because there was no way to enter the mainstream corporate rock world,” Mould explained. “It was exclusive, it was off limits. And this was the best we could do.” There are well documented benefits of participation in music and arts on emotional well-being. For example, one meta-analytic review of 26 studies found that interventions involving music showed a consistent improvement in depression as compared to control groups. So, while many people were able to participate in the underground cultures of hardcore punk, heavy metal and Hip Hop, those who did not have access to listen to or play this music or participate in these scenes may have lost an opportunity to improved mental health.
So now, Mould shares his insights into how he coped with marginalization in the 80’s and how his experience can inform how we cope with present day stressors and marginalization. So, check out Mould’s insights!
Photo credit: Blake Little
